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  #31  
Old 04-18-2012, 03:20 PM
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Will you and your dog be better prepared next time? You obviously learned something right? So what did you hurt or lose? $60? I spent that on a bag of Dog Food last night.

Bruz



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Originally Posted by mcrebel View Post
reality will hit you hard in the face, trust me i know. Newt failed his started test on water @ 11 months old. there are soo many other factors with these hunt test. one big one in my opinion is the atmosphere. soo many unfamiliar dogs, people, holding blinds, and training areas that your pup has never seen or been around. and thats not an excuse for me or my dog, i know that i didnt have him prepared enough, i know he could do it at the time, but i had not given him enough marks from someone else or a winger, his fail was on me.

also another variable, at Old South where we ran started there was a goose nesting on an island about 20 yards from the mark, lets say she decides to take a swim whil your dog is in the water? what is your dog gonna do? not as much of a "cake walk" as portrayed. lots of different things that could happen..

but i do wish you well and know your dogs will title
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  #32  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:30 PM
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Bruz my checklist to be ready for started
Ff complete
Crazy about birds
Loves water
Marks pretty well
Does 100-150 yard marks easy every day
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  #33  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruz View Post
Pigpen,

Explain ready? I'm not being a smart azz...I really want to know what you think is ready to run Sarted or Junior in AKC.

The reason I ask is I AM TRYING TO LEARN I spoke to 2 guys yesterday who both have trained Seasoned Title dogs....One with Labs and one with Boykins.

The advice I was given was " Run your dogs in Started when YOU think they are ready. EVERYONE will give you time lines and guidelines but you can bet they coincide with what their LATEST dog was capable of....Even the Pros do this"

So I want to know when you think they are "Ready".....What is your checklist so to speak?

Robert
I would not even think of running a dog before they are force fetched. FF is not just about picking something up when told or delivering to hand. It is the foundation for all advanced training. Ffing gives the dog a job.

I want to see a dog running 100+ yd marks consistently, both on land and water. No the marks in a test are not that long, but you won't have to worry about the dog hunting short.

As far as handling goes, that depends on the handler. If the handler is experienced or can be trusted not to try and handle, then its ok if the dog handles. If the handler is inexperienced, I don't want them to have that tool in the box. Started and junior are marking tests. That is what the dog should do.
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  #34  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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  #35  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruz View Post
Pigpen,

Explain ready? I'm not being a smart azz...I really want to know what you think is ready to run Sarted or Junior in AKC.

The reason I ask is I AM TRYING TO LEARN I spoke to 2 guys yesterday who both have trained Seasoned Title dogs....One with Labs and one with Boykins.

The advice I was given was " Run your dogs in Started when YOU think they are ready. EVERYONE will give you time lines and guidelines but you can bet they coincide with what their LATEST dog was capable of....Even the Pros do this"

So I want to know when you think they are "Ready".....What is your checklist so to speak?

Robert
Ready for Started or Junior...when you think they can pass a Senior test or at least they are doing senior level work
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  #36  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gator View Post
Bruz my checklist to be ready for started
Ff complete
Crazy about birds
Loves water
Marks pretty well
Does 100-150 yard marks easy every day
Good list but I would add a few things.

1. Will somewhat handle(whistle and cast)
2. Has seen and picked up a crippled bird
3. Has been around dozens of decoys(if you happen to be running under me )
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  #37  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:50 PM
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  #38  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NGaHunter View Post
Good list but I would add a few things.

1. Will somewhat handle(whistle and cast)
2. Has seen and picked up a crippled bird
3. Has been around dozens of decoys(if you happen to be running under me )
1. if the dog was completely FF it would be so close to whistle stop and basic handling...yeah that would be good.

2. don't get that one? there's not a flier in AKC junior is there?i know nothing about aka

3. yes. on dekes. we intro dekes at 12-15 weeks and make them swim with them and retrieve in them.
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  #39  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NGaHunter View Post
Ready for Started or Junior...when you think they can pass a Senior test or at least they are doing senior level work
Yes agree with that too.
Mr joe told me yesterday stop thinking about seasoned work on my pup only think finished dog.
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  #40  
Old 04-18-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator View Post
Bruz my checklist to be ready for started
Ff complete
Crazy about birds
Loves water
Marks pretty well
Does 100-150 yard marks easy every day
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigpen View Post
I would not even think of running a dog before they are force fetched. FF is not just about picking something up when told or delivering to hand. It is the foundation for all advanced training. Ffing gives the dog a job.

I want to see a dog running 100+ yd marks consistently, both on land and water. No the marks in a test are not that long, but you won't have to worry about the dog hunting short.

As far as handling goes, that depends on the handler. If the handler is experienced or can be trusted not to try and handle, then its ok if the dog handles. If the handler is inexperienced, I don't want them to have that tool in the box. Started and junior are marking tests. That is what the dog should do.
Thank you

That's exactly what I am looking for......BUT why would some say running BEFORE FF is fine for Started and Junior?

The observation I made at BSS was one dog went for a Mark.....Ran past it....Hunted for 40 yards...Winded it and then retrieved....They failed the Test because of Marking......

Now...I know this isn't at a Test but I ran my pups on 100 yard Marks down at Outlaw in the knee high grass at camp. ...... Using the Poppers and Duck call.....The nailed all but one and that was when Shaw got distracted by a bird in the grass.....Even after forgetting the mark she hunted it up and retrieved it.

Now....I started on doubles the other day in low grass and short 35-55 yards.....By this weekend I will have them running these doubles at 75-100 in light cover (tall grass)....I also switched to a scented Orange Bumper which is working out fine. I also started using the whistle yesterday which they seem to be transitioning to easy.
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  #41  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:00 PM
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Why did you switch to a bumper they can't see? Use what they can see best for marks. If you want to scent a black and white bumper, have at it but don't use something they can't see for marking.
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  #42  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:02 PM
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Gator

Most of the Junior Test I judge...we DO have a flyer, that is one thing I like for the dogs to see how it responds to a freshly killed bird
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  #43  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:10 PM
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Thanks mr donald. Didnt know that. We intro fliers way early on too.
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  #44  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:13 PM
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Man reading all this test info makes me want to get in the game.
It's just a matter of nor having the time.
When I do I'll have some good info Yall keep it coming.
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  #45  
Old 04-18-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigpen View Post
Why did you switch to a bumper they can't see? Use what they can see best for marks. If you want to scent a black and white bumper, have at it but don't use something they can't see for marking.
Pigpen,

They are seeing it or the movement at least.

I am throwing the Dokken short40-45 yards....Then the Orange Bumper long...75-80 yards.....Once it lands even though I am in short grass they shouldn't be able to see it correct? They have gone straight to it each time so far.

My thought was to see if they would concentrate more on the Mark since they couldn't see a bumper laying there once it stopped moving and then move the Orange bumper to the second mark later....but so far I can't tell a difference at all from using the Ornge versus the White....They follow it just like a White one.

Bruz
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